
UPDATE- see answer below!
Consider this scenario from a recent multi-gun match: A popper activates 2 disappearing targets, and is designated to be shot with the rifle. The competitor engages (shoots at) the popper, does not attempt to shoot the disappearing targets (which didn't appear) and finishes the stage. After holstering his pistol and bagging his rifle he notices the popper is still standing. He calls for calibration. The CRO walks out to check the popper for malfunctions, but before he gets there, the popper goes down.
What is the proper call?
Here is the official ruling from RMI, Carl Schmidt.
The popper was still standing when the course of fire ended, which is when the gun is holstered under rule 8.3.7.3, (Handgun) and rule 8.3.7 (Rifle). The competitor requested a calibration. The target was over 50 yards away; there was no way the CRO could tell if the target had been hit. Under Rifle rules Appendix C1, #7, the popper must not be interfered with by any person, and it is generally accepted practice to inspect the popper prior to firing the calibration shot, in case something has jammed or damaged the hinge. As the popper fell before the CRO inspected the target, Rifle Rules Appendix C1, #6.(c) could not be followed--there was no popper standing to calibrate. The competitor was required to reshoot the stage due to range equipment failure (US 4.3.1.5 (Handgun), US 4.3.1.5 (Rifle) and 4.6.1.).
Comments are still open!
The competitor must reshoot the stage per Rifle Rules Annex C, paragraph 6.b.
Posted by: Liota Wakal November 12, 2005 08:40 PM
Nice one! Since the popper fell of it's own accord, Appendix C1 Point 6(c) could not be fulfilled, therefore Section 4.6 - Range Equipment Failure applies. The competitor is required to reshoot the stage, after which he should go buy a lottery ticket! Maybe some beer and wings too ....
Posted by: Vince Pinto November 16, 2005 12:31 AM
From the Info given I would say 2 Procedurals (FTE) on the 2 disapearing targets, 5 mikes, 1 for the popper and 2 ea for the 2 disapearing targets if they were paper. Per rule 9.9.3. for not activating the mechanism which initiates the target movement.
I read it that the competitor "engages (shoots at) the popper", nothing was mentioned about a bullet strike on the painted surface of the popper. So there would not be a need for a calibration test. And that could be why the disapearing targets never appeared, the popper was engaged (shot at), but not hit.
Posted by: Big Bob November 16, 2005 08:39 PM
Since the COF has ended and the popper fell AFTER the end of the COF, but before the popper could be checked for problems or calibrated the shooter gets a reshoot.
As an aside, if the popper fell BEFORE the end of the COF, but after the shooter had passed a point where the targets would be seen and could be engaged what would you all do?
By the way I think that the set-up should be checked since there are possibly two problems here. The popper MAY be damaged, which would explain why it didn't go down OR it may be set very light which would not explain the failure to fall except that it may have been missed, but in that case it may well have been set too light, which would explain its falling for no apparent reason.
Posted by: Jim Norman November 17, 2005 07:55 PM
I would call it REF and grant the reshoot. I guess I'm a softie.
Jeff
Posted by: Jeff LaFave (B23) November 20, 2005 07:46 PM
I believe that the competitormust reshoot the stage even if that person
had actually missed the popper, becuse it fell before the range officer could inspect it. It sounds like range equipment failture. If it had remained standing then all penalties would be assesed
Posted by: Gary Hubbell November 25, 2005 03:39 PM
The RO should check the popper for a hit and if no hit is found then award penalties for FTE. The popper falling after the COF is a seperate issue. If the popper appears to be in good working order then recalibrate and play on.
Posted by: charles hall December 11, 2005 07:06 AM
I would require a reshoot because the popper could not be checked by the CRO/RM for proper calibration. Since the popper fell for unknown reasons, I would require a thorough inspection of the popper before the recalibration. Since the targets activated by the popper were disappearing, they are not required to be engaged.
Had the popper not fallen before calibration could be attempted, then a Mike for the popper & a FTE Procedural Penalty & 2 Mikes for each of the unactivated moving targets.
Posted by: LeRoy Patterson December 11, 2005 09:34 AM
A good answer to this situation is not possible unless "engages (shoots at) the popper" is stated more clearly to clarify the shot to be a miss or a hit that failed to knock the popper down.
Stated in App C1, 6 - "If, during a course of fire, a popper does not fall when shot," .... not "engages (shoots at)" but shot and HIT. The competitor is not entitled to call for a calibration challenge if his engagement shot did not HIT the popper. Application of other rules, whether it be 9.9.3 versus 4.6.2 after a calibration challenge depend upon whether or not the popper was actually struck by the engagement shot. 4.6.2 would not apply because the competitor was able to complete the course of fire.
A reshoot due to the inability to fulfill the requirements in App C1 is not open to discussion if the popper was not hit, even if it did fall over later due to wind, gravitational forces secondary to the rotation of the planet, or the vibrations caused by his squad jumping up and down in unison to shake the dirt under it.
Posted by: Dave Myers FY29193 December 17, 2005 07:27 PM
As a follow-up, in view of the comment "The CRO walks out to check the popper for malfunctions" in the question, we must presume that the popper was hit, otherwise the CRO wouldn't bother going downrange to check the popper!
Posted by: Vince Pinto December 19, 2005 12:08 AM
Presumably the competitor was fully briefed on the stage set-up so should have known that the popper in question activated the disappearing targets. He/she "engaged" the popper, i.e. shot at it, but it didn't fall and activate the the other targets. The competitor apparently did not re-engage the popper to ensure that he/she hit it and just continued the stage and didn't "notice" that the popper hadn't fallen until he/she finished. Well, I would opine that he/she was burning through the stage and not paying that much attention and it was his/her responsibility to follow the stage directions.
Since the popper did fall over as the RO approached it, it had the ability to fall if struck properly. Since the competitor failed to ensure the popper fell by shooting it again, I would give him/her a mike on the popper and 2 FTEs for the disappearing targets.
Posted by: Bruce Ullman December 26, 2005 11:46 AM
The rules as written do not cover this situation. So far the posts refer to calibration procedures and range equipment failure. Neither apply to the situation at hand.
Concerning the calibration procedures:
Appendix C1 Section 6(c) clearly states that a reshoot must be given if a match official violates the rule about interferring with the popper or surrounding area. In the situation we are reviewing the match official was yards away and therefore could not have interferred with the popper. Section 6(c) also refers to competitors who interfere, but the popper fell when everyone was too far away to be considered as interferring.
Apendix C1 Section 7 refers only to situations in which a match official is able to conduct a calibration test. Since the popper fell, a calibration test is not possible, and this section does not apply.
Other posts refer to Rule 4.6.1, which upon careful reading is only a definition of what constitutes range equipment failure. It does NOT contain a remedy in the event of range equipment failure. Comments then move to Rule 4.6.2, but this rule does not apply either for the simple reason that it is strictly confined to what happens if a competitor CANNOT complete a course of fire. I think we all agree that the competitor did complete the course of fire because of Rule 8.7.3.
Therefore, there is no rule in the current rule books that cover this situation. The correct call is to presume that the competitor did in fact hit the popper, but a binding mechanism or who knows what prevented the popper from falling.
The bottom line is that the popper did fall after being shot at and without interference by humans, so the competitor is credited with hitting the popper. Also, since the targets that are activated by the popper completely disappear, no miss penalties apply because of Rule 9.9.2. Further, since the popper fell prior to inspection and calibration, no failure to engage penalies apply because of Rule 9.9.3, which stipulates that the activator target must be activated; it was.
Call it an Act of God: No reshoot, no penalties, score the stage and move on. Should IPSC decide in the future that it wants to require a reshoot for this situation, it should add a clause to Appendix C1 Section 7 that covers what occurs in event a popper cannot be calibrated through the fault of no one, or modify Rule 4.6.2 so that is is not constrained to situations where a competitor is unable to complete a course of fire.
Posted by: Roger January 5, 2006 04:37 PM
Shooter gets a reshoot. The comment that there was no mention of a bullet stike on the popper is irrelevent. It was also not mentioned whether or not the poppers were repainted between each shooter.
Since the popper could not be claibrated, the shooter gets his reshoot. same as if while checking the the popper the RO inadvertantly knocked it over.
Posted by: Jim Norman January 13, 2006 08:29 AM
The popper was standing after the COF was completed
The popper was shot at(and must fall to score)-so 1 miss
As the poper did not activate the dissapearing targets there would be 2 falures to shoot proceedurals and 4 misses for the not activated dissapearing targets as per 9.9.3; then call for the RM and then wait for the results of the arbitration to clarrify this point for the future as per 11.8.3.
The last part is the only part that is important-while no body really wants arbitrations-they may be the only soultion to an arcane situation.
Posted by: David Huta April 9, 2007 11:28 AM